Track 2: The Art of Speaking Up with Amy Green Smith
Episode 2 is here, and we’re talking all about speaking up and “boundary-ing” up with family. My guest is Amy Green Smith, a certified and credentialed life coach, hypnotherapist, masterful speaker, and courageous communication expert. Amy is a long-time client of mine, and I am thrilled to share her brilliance with you!
Amy shares:
Why it might be hard to speak up around family
How people-pleasing and speaking up for yourself are closely connected
The importance of tapping into emotions to inform when you need to be an advocate for yourself
Her 3-prong approach to creating and enforcing boundaries
The art of the soft entry into difficult conversations with family and friends
Speaking up to family about respecting your child’s likes and dislikes
How to talk to other adults when their child infringes on your child’s personal space/values/beliefs
Amy's approach stands out because she emphasizes finding one's voice with kindness and thoughtfulness, even in potentially difficult conversations.
As the podcast series moves along into future episodes that focus on parenting and challenging traditional parenting techniques, I encourage you to revisit this episode for a refresher on boundary creation and advocating for your choices and your children.
Episode references:
Amy‘s website
Amy on Instagram
Amy’s Free-resources
Can A Child Be Raised Free Of Gender Stereotypes? This Family Tried, NPR’s Hidden Brain
Music by Yrii Semchyshyn from Pixabay
Transcript:
[00:00:00] Darlene: You're listening to Generational Shifts, the podcast that explores the evolving landscape of parenting, health and wellness, and personal development.
[00:00:12] This season features conversations from today's leading professionals to help you gain new insight and tools for parenting in the 21st century. Now let's jump into today's topic and uncover the tools you need for navigating parenthood in today's ever changing world.
[00:00:35] Hey everyone, welcome back to Generational I am your host and producer, Darlene Victoria, and I am so happy that you were back with me again for episode two. Yay. This week's episode is all about speaking up, setting and enforcing boundaries, and. Overall, really how to have tough conversations with [00:01:00] family.
[00:01:00] My guest this week is Amy Greensmith. Amy is a certified and credentialed life coach, hypnotherapist, masterful speaker, and courageous communication expert. Amy is also one of my longtime clients, as you'll hear in this episode. Amy helps move individuals to a place of radical personal empowerment and self worth.
[00:01:23] Learn So, I really love this conversation and I'm thrilled to share it with you this week. And I just wanted to give you a little overview of what you'll hear. During our time together, Amy and I talk about why it might feel hard to speak up with family. She also explains how to tap into our emotions to inform when we do need to speak up and self advocate.
[00:01:47] She shares her three pronged approach to boundary setting, and we just talk about so much more. But here's the thing, throughout our conversation, I couldn't help but notice Amy's [00:02:00] focus on helping you find your voice, but doing so in a way that's kind and thoughtful. Speaking up for yourself doesn't need to be confrontational.
[00:02:10] Like when you hear about, I'm going to speak up for yourself, you feel like you're going to Square up your shoulders and you're like, ready to like, have this fight with someone with your words, but as you'll hear Amy talk, it doesn't need to be that way. In fact, she talks about the soft entry into hard conversations, and you'll hear what that means in this episode.
[00:02:33] That's even with people you might perceive as non receptive to the conversation. I really enjoyed the way that she. Talks about speaking up for yourself. Here's the thing. As you listen to future episodes of this podcast, we'll begin to dig into topics related to parenting that might push against the parenting ideas or techniques that you were raised.
[00:02:58] This episode is [00:03:00] less about those kind of topics, but my hope is that you'll turn back to this episode as a refresher for creating boundaries and advocating for your parenting choices and your children. So now, it's time to hear from Amy Green Smith as we explore the art of speaking up and strategies for family communication.
[00:03:36] Amy Green Smith, welcome to the podcast. Hi,
[00:03:41] Amy Green Smith: Darlene. I'm so excited to hang out.
[00:03:43] Darlene: For everybody listening, Amy and I have actually been working together,
[00:03:48] Amy Green Smith: ooh, oh my God, four, four or five years. It might even be longer than that.
[00:03:52] Darlene: Yeah, it's definitely long, but as we're talking, you might be like, Oh, they seem like they [00:04:00] know each other.
[00:04:00] We do because we work together. Just wanted to put that out
[00:04:03] Amy Green Smith: there. I was thinking like, I always call you D. Does anyone else call you D except me?
[00:04:08] Darlene: I get D and DV a lot from various clients. Yeah.
[00:04:13] Amy Green Smith: Oh, cool. I was about to say D and then I was like, Oh, I should probably call her Darlene.
[00:04:19] Darlene: So a lot of the conversations I've been having with people have been specific to parenting, but today we're leaning a little bit more towards the personal development side of things where the goal at the end of this episode is that listeners can have difficult conversations about parenting, enforcing boundaries, and maybe even you.
[00:04:44] Dropping some of their people pleasing tendencies all around parenting and with their family and things like that. So are you game?
[00:04:52] Amy Green Smith: Oh my gosh, 100%. This is my favorite. I
[00:04:55] Darlene: Wanted to preface everything we're about to jump into just by [00:05:00] briefly talking about an overarching theme that a lot of these episodes have had, which is the aspect of intergenerational parenting, which is basically.
[00:05:11] The influence of parenting from other generations, what we think and how we behave and how we parent our own children. The good news is, if we don't like something that was happened, that we were raised in knowing how to raise our children, we can change it. The Interesting aspect that comes in and why we're here to get today, you and I is when we do make that change, there is often pushback from certain family members.
[00:05:43] That's not the way you were raised. Why are you doing it like that? So I want to talk about. Speaking up for yourself in general. Yeah. One of the areas I really wanted to hone in on is in families. There's [00:06:00] typically everybody's has a label, so to speak, you might be labeled the sporty one, maybe your brother is labeled the loud one or.
[00:06:08] If you're listening, maybe you were labeled the quiet one, which is actually me. I was the quiet one and the youngest. There's these different buckets that everybody's put into, but if you are dubbed the quiet one, those people specifically, not just those people, because. Even the roles that you are formulated in your family might also have a bearing on this, but you have the tendency to not speak up, not to share your thoughts, not to express how you really feel about certain situations.
[00:06:43] So for those people who were children and now adults still living in that shadow of how can they overcome that? What are your thoughts
[00:06:51] Amy Green Smith: on that? I think something that you're bringing up here. Is really important to, to look at some of the nuance, because when I [00:07:00] talk about the concept of people pleasing, we almost always have this notion that the only people who are people pleasing and therefore not speaking up have to be the shy.
[00:07:14] Quiet wallflower who disappears into the background, but then quite frequently I will pose to folks. How easy is it for you to speak up with your family? Or how easy is it for you to establish that boundary with your sister or your mom? And that person could be incredibly Extroverted and gregarious and loud and still feel immense trepidation around being vocal.
[00:07:39] So when we talk about this idea of people pleasing, which is quite antithetical to speaking up, and what I mean by that is typically we don't speak up because we are worried about what the other person might think or feel. . And it something that I think is really important to underline. Is that we are wired to do [00:08:00] that.
[00:08:00] So in our families of origin, that is our kind of mini tribe, right? And so if we look at the primitive background of people pleasing, it was essentially because our primitive ancestors could not survive without a family unit. There was no tribe of one. You had to have belonging. I think that's important to give yourself a little bit of compassion in that we look to our families for safety and security and stability, and we fall into these various roles of acquiescing to our parents, quote, not rocking the boat, not opening up a can of worms.
[00:08:39] We have all these idioms to say shut the fuck up and just don't give voice. But I do think that it applies to everyone, whether you are, the comedic one in the family or you're the shy one in the family. But I think what we have to realize is. Primitively, if we did rock the boat, we risked.[00:09:00]
[00:09:00] Death, actually being kicked out of the group. So there's a very real reason now why we feel that we must have our parents approval or our family's acceptance. And of course we don't think consciously I might die subconsciously. And from our primitive mind standpoint, there is a real threat if we're not accepted by our families.
[00:09:25] Where do we start? I think one of the first pieces is around our emotional intelligence. And this might sound like an odd suggestion, but my guess would be, and Darlene, you can tell me if you've had this experience, where your silence created a really disruptive emotion. For example, let's say. Your mom says something to you about your parenting, and it really hurts your feelings, but you don't necessarily have the skill set or the ability to speak up in a way that's thoughtful and articulate.
[00:09:58] So then you go home [00:10:00] and you're just stewing in a really uncomfortable emotion. Your husband might hear everything about how frustrated you are. Your emotions will be a huge guide in telling you like, Ooh, this could be an avenue for me to start speaking up. So leaning into just how we feel, our emotions are.
[00:10:21] A compass and they are simply just messaging. So if you notice that every time you're around your in laws and they pick you apart and you don't speak up, or every time you're in the parent teacher conference, you get the side eye from your kid's teacher that you feel something happening for you, either shame or guilt, embarrassment, frustration, anger.
[00:10:44] Tapping into those emotions to go, okay, something isn't right here. What is this telling me? And most of the time it's about, I need to be an advocate for self.
[00:10:55] Darlene: How do you know when it's a good time to speak up versus. [00:11:00] Putting it aside for now and speaking up about it at a later time.
[00:11:04] Amy Green Smith: Ooh, that is a great question.
[00:11:06] And you're probably not going to like the answer because it's a different answer every single time, but there are workarounds, for example, let's say you're at a family function. Let's say it's a holiday. And so yes, the overall essence is merriment and everyone's jovial and having a great time together.
[00:11:31] And there is a comment made that really doesn't sit well with you. Maybe it's a comment about what you allow your Children to eat or consume or too much time on a tablet or whatever. You don't necessarily have to get involved in a full on conversation in order to speak up for yourself. So quite simply, you could say something like, I find that comment a bit disturbing or I don't share that [00:12:00] opinion, but we certainly don't need to get into it right now.
[00:12:04] And just that phrase allows your. Silence to not make you a liar. That's one of my favorite sort of governing mantras is do not allow your silence to make you a liar. Meaning if you are quiet, does it look like you're complicit? Like you agree with that person. So in those moments you can very easily say, I don't think this is the time to get into it, but that comment really didn't sit well with me.
[00:12:34] You can also choose to just say, Hey, I don't share that opinion. We certainly don't need to get into it. And then you can choose to come back to it. In fact, I had a situation just like this, where I was at a family dinner. We were going out to a restaurant and my brother and I on the way there. He had started wanting to talk about gun control issues and gun rights, which we are on two totally [00:13:00] opposite sides of the spectrum.
[00:13:02] And I'm like, okay, I really want to hang out with my nieces and nephews. This is way more important to me than getting into this political debate with my brother. So for me, it was not the right time for him. It could have been, but I'm not consenting to that conversation. So what this looked like, Darlene, it was pretty wild.
[00:13:21] He kept going with the content. He kept wanting to talk about legislation or that doesn't make sense, blah, blah, blah. And I said, listen, I don't share that opinion, but I am not going to get into it with you about this or right now. And as we were walking into the restaurant, he's following me like a puppy still trying to say, yeah, but what about this?
[00:13:41] And I said, I have to reinforce, I'm not going to discuss it with you right now. We can discuss it at a different time. And that's what I call resisting the bait because a lot of times folks will want to try to bait you into the conversation like, no, let's talk about why you're okay with high fructose [00:14:00] corn syrup.
[00:14:00] Let's talk about why you're okay with so much screen time and you can say you have to keep doubling down. on the boundary as opposed to defending your side. And that can be really tricky.
[00:14:16] Darlene: Boundaries with your family. Yeah. I know you have many podcast episodes about it and you talk about this fairly often, I'm sure with your clients.
[00:14:25] So I'd love to hear from you about that. Yeah.
[00:14:28] Amy Green Smith: So there are so many different types of boundaries you can have, physical type of boundaries, with your own body, that sort of thing. The way that I look at boundaries is through the lens of the things that you will no longer tolerate from another person or another environment, let's say so something we were talking about earlier is perhaps if you were really upset with your mom, maybe it's your partner who gets an earful.
[00:14:53] So a lot of times we will be speaking up. We're just speaking up to the wrong person. So one of the [00:15:00] best places to figure out if you need a boundary is to look at what you chronically complain about without spouting out. Actually bringing your grievance to the appropriate party. So if, for example, if you are always complaining to your sister about something your husband does, or, you're always giving your therapist an earful about how frustrating your in laws are.
[00:15:26] But they would have no idea how upset you are about it. What a big enough deal this is in your life. The gravity of the issue, then that usually is an indication of a boundary that needs to be set. Because I think a lot of folks go, okay, I get that idea of boundaries, but how do I even know where to start with that?
[00:15:47] An important caveat here is I'm not talking about simply venting, right? Because we all have situations where we have to come home, we have to vent, we have to clear it out. I'm talking about when that is [00:16:00] habitual and a pattern over and you have not brought that grievance to the appropriate party.
[00:16:07] So that gives you an indication of okay, here's a situation where I may need to establish a boundary. And I have a three prong. Approach to that, and I can go into all of them, but an overarching view of it is we're going to, first of all, decide. on the boundary. The second is we're going to deliver the boundary and the third is we're going to enforce the boundary.
[00:16:35] So I will use an example actually of a friend of mine from decades ago who had a really precarious situation with her in laws and they had a very strong religious difference. This friend of mine wanted to raise her children. In a fairly agnostic environment. She wanted them to be able to be curious about any type of [00:17:00] religion, but she did not want anything mandated or dictated to them.
[00:17:04] So her in laws were incredibly devout in Catholicism. And she really respected that, but she also did not want any of that influence on her children and both her and her husband were very aligned in that matter. So if first we're going to decide, we're going to decide on what the boundary is now under that point, the most important thing here.
[00:17:28] Is specificity is being incredibly clear. So what I mean by that is if you were to say to your in laws, I need you to respect my choices more. What the fuck does that mean? How do I know? If you were to go tell your husband, I want more romance. It's what the fuck?
[00:17:45] Darlene: That's very
[00:17:46] Amy Green Smith: generic. Yeah. Should I leave you notes around the house? Do you want me to initiate sex more? Do you want me to plan date nights? There's so much room for interpretation. So with this example, she would need to decide, and I highly [00:18:00] advocate that people write this down and get it really clear for themselves.
[00:18:03] Because once you're in the middle of a conversation, Emotions get heightened and things get derailed. You get flustered and flooded. So if you can create some sort of resource for yourself, write it down. And then when you go and have the conversation, you can say, Hey, listen, this meant a lot to me and I really wanted to get it right, which is why I'm writing things down.
[00:18:23] If that feels silly. So in this situation, she's gonna say, I would really appreciate it. Or her definitive boundaries are please no references to God, Jesus, anything related to Catholicism. Please don't talk about baptism. Please don't bring them. To any mass, please don't do rituals that are typically Catholic in nature.
[00:18:46] Don't buy them like being very clear about all of these things. And then here are the things that are actually okay with me.
[00:18:54] So that would be the deciding factor. The deciding is what you're going to do internally by [00:19:00] yourself, journaling, figuring it out. And that might be something that in this scenario you talk about with your partner.
[00:19:06] If you are in a partnership, then we go into the deliver piece. Now I'm going to actually go have the conversation. And there are, we could talk for hours just on the anatomy of a difficult conversation, but In essence, whatever emotion or sentiment you want to evoke from the other person, do your best to embody that.
[00:19:34] So what I mean by that is if you go into a conversation and you're like, we need to talk or things have not been going well. You are far more likely to elicit the exact same emotional response, which is defensiveness and being a little bit more contrarian and adversarial, which is not, of course you're valid in feeling that defense.
[00:19:54] But it doesn't typically help yield the results that you're looking for, right? [00:20:00]
[00:20:00] Darlene: Yeah. No, because the other person will immediately be like what? And then it'll just ensue an argument probably. Sure.
[00:20:07] Amy Green Smith: And then they feel. Attacked. And so what do we, when we feel attacked, we go into our fight, flight, freeze, fun, where's the month we start.
[00:20:14] And so we're not really showing up powerfully, right?
[00:20:17] Darlene: They lash back, lash out, lash back at the boundary.
[00:20:21] Amy Green Smith: That's right. It also makes you much easier to be dismissed. So they can be like, Oh, she's always so dramatic. She's always and of course that's not fair. And let's set yourself up for success as best as you can.
[00:20:37] We have what is called emotional contagion, meaning that we can actually catch feels. As the kids say, we can emulate or mirror the emotion that we're feeling from other people. So when we're going into a conversation, think about what would you want them to mirror back to you? You would probably want softness, [00:21:00] openness, connectedness.
[00:21:02] So what you can do is start by simply expressing gratitude. Hey, thank you so much for having this conversation with me. I know that this is just wildly awkward and it just means so much to me. And another piece of working with gratitude or vulnerability is to say, Hey, there's some stuff that's been going on in my mind.
[00:21:24] And you would have no idea about that. And that is unbelievably unfair to you. And if the situation was reversed, I would absolutely want you to bring stuff to me if it wasn't sitting well with you. What we're doing, John Gottman calls this a soft startup. It's where we're entering into a conversation softly because typically we're so we feel so wronged and so frustrated that we go in ready to do battle.
[00:21:52] And that very rarely yields the result we're looking for. So now we're going to deliver, we're going to use vulnerability as much as is [00:22:00] safe because if that person is not safe, vulnerability is not necessarily the tool. But you can always very simply, it's vulnerable to say, thank you for having this conversation with me.
[00:22:11] Then we're going to go into a sort of a formula for conveying what's going on. And this is also a three prong process and it is, here's what happened or here's the issue. Here's how I interpret that. Or here's how it landed for me. And then finally, here's my request. So you would go into that conversation and say, Hey, listen, using this same example, I know that your faith is incredibly important to you.
[00:22:42] And I never want to take that away from you. But as myself and your son have decided to raise the children with a much more liberal approach to religion. And I certainly don't expect you to agree with that at all. But what I am expecting is respect because [00:23:00] I intend to give you the utmost respect for your faith.
[00:23:04] And I hope that we can have that in return. So what that means for me is, and then you would deliver all the specifics that you please refrain from mentioning, all this stuff we talked about. Yeah. Your step one. All the
[00:23:17] Darlene: boundary.
[00:23:18] Amy Green Smith: Yeah. And then it depends if it's up for collaboration. In some situations it might be that they say it's a boundary for them where they say we're not willing to watch your children anymore if we're not able to impart the values that we feel are mandatory.
[00:23:34] So sometimes it is an ultimatum. I think far more frequently than not. It is not an ultimatum. It's an opportunity for collaboration. And then the third step, which is sometimes the hardest, is the enforcement. Yep. Cause a lot of times you think, okay, I'd listen to this podcast. I read this book.
[00:23:53] I'm all jazzed up. I'm going to go tell my in laws what's up. And then you all right, I'm all done [00:24:00] with that. I
[00:24:01] Darlene: told them, and then you expect, okay, this is it. This is great. And then the boundary gets pushed and then you're like
[00:24:08] Amy Green Smith: you're like, Oh shit, now what?
[00:24:10] Darlene: Yeah,
[00:24:12] Amy Green Smith: exactly. I thought you just set a boundary and people magically listen to it.
[00:24:16] No, they don't. Here's what you also have to know about that is if you have been in a relation with a relationship with this person for decades or even a handful of years, Okay. And you've exhibited behavior that doesn't look like you're a very boundaried individual. They're used to you behaving a specific way.
[00:24:36] So sometimes it's not malicious at all when they breach the boundary. They're just not used to that being the new norm, unless you have it on good authority that person is malicious and doing things ill intended. I try to assume positive intent. So this is where you have to make an internal decision around how many times am [00:25:00] I willing to repeat this boundary before I institute a consequence.
[00:25:05] And that's an internal gauge, right? So what you might do is let's say your child comes home from hanging out with your in laws and says Oh yeah, they took me to mass. On Sunday and you go, Oh shit, that was a very clear boundary. I said, first of all, you're going to be pissed. So you need to get that energy out somehow.
[00:25:26] I call these anger releases, emotional releases, go for a run, beat the shit out of your bed, scribble, do something to get through that anger so that you can come down from it and have a thoughtful conversation. So then you might circle back and say something like. Hey, Brayden came home and mentioned that y'all went to mass this past Sunday, and I have to say that really hurt my heart because I felt like I was really explicit and very clear about the things that [00:26:00] we really didn't want to subject them to.
[00:26:02] So I'm curious what that perspective was for you around why that would be acceptable. Get it on them. Find out what they have to say. And then say, okay, and again, I recognize that we have very different feelings about this, but this is non negotiable for us and our household. I'm going to politely request again that when our kids are with you, that you underline it again.
[00:26:24] And perhaps I did not emphasize how grave and how important this is to us. But again, this is non negotiable. And being really clear. And then again, now you have to decide if they breach the boundary again, are there going to be consequences? And then it could end up being an ultimatum conversation. And this is all part of the enforcement been very explicit.
[00:26:49] And if. anything like this happens again. I'm really sad to say that we're gonna have to look for alternative child care. I will not allow you to be around the Children [00:27:00] without either myself or my partner present, right? You like, I'm not. We're gonna have to leave the premises. We're gonna have to get off the phone.
[00:27:06] We're gonna have to cancel. We're gonna write. You really have to decide. What does the enforcement look like? And most of the time for situations that aren't super extreme, if you enforce the boundary and say, Hey, listen, I really meant it a couple of times. A lot of times they'll get the picture and they'll just stop because those conversations are so uncomfortable for people that they're like, I'd rather just give her what she wants.
[00:27:38] Darlene: Yes. A lot of what you're saying, how you're saying it and the examples, it's coming out very like specific kind and clear. I'm curious if you think the approach should change in all of the boundary conversation, the three prong approach, if you know the person you're going into the conversation with their [00:28:00] emotional intelligence isn't really, we all struggle with it, but let's say they're lower on the emotional intelligence and they have an aggressive nature and you just know going into it that it might not land well. Do you think the approach should be different? Should the approach be tailored based on
[00:28:21] Amy Green Smith: the person? The simple answer is yes, it absolutely should be tempered.
[00:28:26] The one thing to be aware of is that name calling, accusations, yelling and screaming, all of that y'all is verbal abuse. We are not going to stay in a conversation when those sorts of things are happening. So If it is not safe for you to have the conversation, then absolutely. Sometimes emails, sometimes text is being called for.
[00:28:53] But here's what I will say. People will totally surprise you when you change your [00:29:00] approach. Again, we have those mirror neurons in the brain that will naturally mimic what someone else is doing. And that's a survival technique. Ooh, if I can mimic what this other person is, this emotional contagion.
[00:29:14] So if you go in and I've had this situation many times with my mom, where I used to go into conversations, very combative.
[00:29:22] Darlene: Ready for the fight. Yeah.
[00:29:25] Amy Green Smith: You if you did this and and of course my stance hasn't changed, right? But my delivery needs to change. So if it's somebody who's relatively safe, I think it's worth the experiment of a soft entry.
[00:29:43] Okay. And also acknowledging who that person is like, Hey, I know you would probably never have intended for it to come across this way. But this landed a little bit offensively. Now, if you are showing up and you're delivering things very [00:30:00] calmly, very kindly, and you're not throwing insults and they are still rooted in aggression, then you.
[00:30:09] You state the boundary and you get the fuck out of there. So you say something like, listen, this is not up for discussion. This is not up for debate. This is the request going forward. If you're not able to honor that, we will have to make other arrangements. Here's the thing that's going to happen. And the, this conversation is over and I'm going to excuse myself.
[00:30:27] And you just get. Out. But I think there's a real important thing to know about this because for many of us who are Gen X, we have boomer parents or sometimes even older generation parents. And sometimes what's deemed acceptable is actual abuse is verbal abuse, emotion abuse. And they're like I'm fine.
[00:30:47] And it's no, you're not. You need therapy too. Sometimes there's a real generational divide in it. What is an acceptable way to converse and also sometimes [00:31:00] culturally, it's different. If you are from, I know of a gal who's from an Irish family where everyone just yells and screams and that's just how you communicate.
[00:31:09] So in order to dismantle that, you're going to have to take a real strong stance and there's a reason why that feels so wildly uncomfortable. You're going against the familial unit. That typically equals safety. So just know that none of this is easy, partly because we're not taught how to do it, but also because primitively we're wired to acquiesce and just go along to get along.
[00:31:36] Yes.
[00:31:37] Darlene: Yes. So I have two more questions and so I'm going to. Give the example and then I will leave, I'm going to leave the floor open to you to however you want to respond based on everything we're talking about. And this came to mind because this is actually something, it came up for me with my son, but not, I [00:32:00] didn't get pushback, but me, we'll explain.
[00:32:03] So it's about. Child preferences for the things that are not by society's standards things related to their perceived gender. So someone's biological sex as a child is a boy and their gender identifies as a boy. But they like pink, they're playing with dolls and that actually, my son loved pink. He loves rainbows.
[00:32:31] Then he got into kindergarten and I'm sure the kids were like, Oh, pink's a girl color. So I've always instilled like colors are colors. You like what you like. And it's fine. Some family members, they didn't push back, but they would say when buying something, what color should we get?
[00:32:49] And I was like, what color you should get pink. And they would have a little bit of a problem. You sure not blue. And I was like, no pink. So they would buy the pink thing. [00:33:00] But I know that there are families that'll go pink. Pink is for girls. Or maybe they'll go ahead and By the child toys that are so called meant for boys, as opposed to what the child likes.
[00:33:14] So what would be some ways for someone to approach that situation with family members? What are your thoughts about that kind of scenario? And what can people do after listening to this to stand up for? There's a child really likes and wants and needs versus what people think that the child should want or need based on their perceived gender.
[00:33:38] Oh,
[00:33:40] Amy Green Smith: yes. This is a, oh, this is such a good one. And it's also really topical to what has been changing in the gender landscape over the last 10 years or so. The first thing that I think we need to have a really clear understanding about. Is that people are pretty much the only thing that has gender, so fragrances, [00:34:00] color, cocktails, none of those jobs.
[00:34:05] Those don't have gender. They are not gendered. They are. socially prescribed a gender in order to subjugate certain folks, namely women. So understanding that and just having a working belief about your perspective around gender I think is really important because then you have a little bit more of a foundation.
[00:34:29] To jump from. So I think again, it's recognizing that most of the folks who are saying those things usually not always, but usually aren't ill intended. They're just wildly uneducated. And it is a, an archaic perspective. And I think also Sometimes, older generations or folks who don't quite get it are searching for relevance and they feel like they're missing the boat.
[00:34:59] [00:35:00] So I think the kinder you can be to folks, the better. And similarly to what I was talking about earlier, I think you could say something like, Hey, listen, I don't expect you to agree. You don't have to share the same opinion, but I would really appreciate respect. You don't have to agree. If you have little tidbits of education that you want to share with them Hey, did you know in days of old pink was actually considered a very masculine color?
[00:35:32] So it changes. It's not necessarily something that's gendered. So it depends on the nature of the relationship with that person. How much education you want to share or how you want to impart that, but it could be like just honoring that they want to do something kind for your child. So to say, thank you so much for asking.
[00:35:54] I really appreciate that. He's actually super into nail polish right now. If you could [00:36:00] get him a nail polish. Full manicure set, he would lose his ever loving mind. And I know you always want to see him happy. And I do too. So if that's something that you're up for, I would love that. Now, if that goes against some sort of moral code for them.
[00:36:19] We have to respect that as well. So it could be something like, if that's not something that you're willing to participate in, a gift card to Barnes and Noble is always fantastic or something like that, right? It just as much as we don't want to be persuaded out of our perspective. They probably don't want to either.
[00:36:38] And the more you chastise or make them wrong, the more they're going to dig their heels in and the more reason they have to dismiss you. So honoring their positive intent that they want to give a gift saying, Hey, here's what he's so into. It's so exciting. We really want to champion him. Or if it's with a little girl, she [00:37:00] loves trucks.
[00:37:01] She's in this massive dump truck phase. So any type of dump truck, if you can find little rocks where she can move things around, she loves that tool belts, et cetera. It's also saying. If you can't abide by that, you also have the opportunity to say, you know what, because everyone has a slightly different opinion about things were simply requesting cash or gift cards.
[00:37:24] You could just do something like it doesn't have to be. A teaching moment or incredibly adversarial, but you also don't have to succumb to just what they want to do.
[00:37:35] Darlene: Yeah. I like that. I like how you're being thoughtful of what their perspective might be, but also being like, this is giving alternatives that.
[00:37:46] Are
[00:37:46] Amy Green Smith: neutral, right? And if you have somebody and this is typically worst case scenario, but I have heard of it where they will still send dresses to the little girl who clearly doesn't want them. You [00:38:00] have every right to send them back. If you have been incredibly explicit now, it's not necessarily kind if they send you something and you haven't told them, right?
[00:38:13] Like you need to at least give people the opportunity to be what you need and I'll see if I can find it deep, but there was an incredible. NPR broadcast that they did a story that they did about some parents who chose to raise their daughter as best as they can without any. Yeah.
[00:38:34] Darlene: I know which one you're talking about.
[00:38:36] You know what you mean? Yeah.
[00:38:37] Amy Green Smith: Yeah. Yeah. And it was wild. And they had to do that where they said, okay, we want toys that are just like primary colors. We want blocks and reading materials and things like that. Colors that are, neutral, like we're just going to allow her to decide what she likes.
[00:38:57] And it was unreal [00:39:00] how much the families had such a difficult time. They're like, please, can we send frilly dresses please. And they had to really boundary up around that. But it's really interesting when you look at the history of where we even got blue and pink is all rooted in capitalism.
[00:39:18] And companies being able to make more money. So they're not gendered. Color is not gendered. No.
[00:39:25] Darlene: Yeah. Oh before we go, I did have one other scenario I wanted to pose to you. And we've been talking a lot about family and family conversations. And at the top of the episode, you had mentioned about.
[00:39:40] Maybe being at the PTO meeting and the teacher is giving you a side eye. So it's extension of that where it's other adults that are within the realm of your child. So I'll give you an example. Okay. So this is, again, someone that is not a family member, and it comes to the values, [00:40:00] habits, lessons that you want to teach your kid.
[00:40:02] And you're seeing that another child within their space is infringing on that. So a specific scenario could be you teach your kid about consent. Don't touch other children unless you ask, you don't hug, things like that. And then you witness other children with a complete disregard for personal space of your child.
[00:40:23] Depending on their age, obviously you can intervene. If you feel your child has the tools and they can say, excuse me, this is my personal space. But putting that aside, what would be a good way to speak up to the parent about this?
[00:40:38] Amy Green Smith: Yeah. So again, people are, it's all about the delivery, because if you go in there and this can really happen when you are on the quote woke side of things where you get a little elitist.
[00:40:53] about I can't believe you aren't teaching about consent.
[00:40:56] So if you go in [00:41:00] being like, you're a shit parent, of course, they're not going to be able to hear you. So again, your soft startup is going to be incredibly important to say, Hey, I just noticed an interaction between our kids that I would really love to run by you.
[00:41:15] And I'm not sure what you're sharing with Michael about consent, but something that's really important in our household is bodily consent. So that looks like asking before touching or not just grabbing one another, not just coming in for a hug. And that's incredibly important to us. So I would really.
[00:41:37] Appreciate it. If you would just share with your child that how we work in our household may be a little bit different. I don't expect that you are going to adopt the same tactics, but I do expect respect for my child and his own bodily autonomy. What's your perspective? And genuinely be kind to people and where are they at?[00:42:00]
[00:42:00] And then depending on how you're at, Defensive. They are or open. They are. You can tweak your approach. And so if they do become a little bit more adversarial, you can say, Listen, I really want to respect your parenting choices, but it's going to be unacceptable from this point forward for your child to conduct himself with my child in that manner.
[00:42:20] And I will take disciplinary actions if necessary, or, whatever. I will institute consequences if necessary, or I will get the administration involved or whatever. So you can get to a point if someone's deliberately not respecting a boundary like that, it's gauntlet time. You throw down the gauntlet and you're like.
[00:42:39] Okay. I've done my part in trying to be amiable with you. And if that's not something that you're willing to work with me on, then I'm going to have to really be boundaried up for the sake of my child's welfare. But I think it's always, it's worth the kind conversation. It's worth it. Who knows?
[00:42:58] You could be the [00:43:00] first. I think about this a lot with the folks in my life who we are on totally different sides of the political spectrum, that I could very well be the only example of bodily consent that they've ever heard about. So do I want that to be like, Oh my gosh, this fucking crazy liberal, no, I want them to be like, wow, she was really thoughtful. She was really respectful of my parenting choices and she didn't come trying to. educate me. So I always try to keep that into perspective as well.
[00:43:32] Darlene: Yeah, that's awesome. I lied. I have one more question before the final question. We've been talking about speaking up to family boundaries.
[00:43:41] And I know a lot of people are listening, going great. This all sounds amazing, but I'm still fearful that if, and when I do this, I'm going to push my parents, my children's grandparents. What thoughts or advice do you have about just in general, like the [00:44:00] fearful feelings that might come up that you're going to push family away, push friends away, and then any final words about everything we've been speaking about, if you have any, yeah,
[00:44:11] Amy Green Smith: This is really tricky because that fear is really warranted because we never stop rooting for our parents. We want them to come through for us. We want them to be a safe place to land. And the idea of severing those relationships can be unbelievably painful. But I have a very strong opinion about this notion that blood is thicker than water or that it's family at all costs.
[00:44:35] I don't subscribe to that. My personal stance is that respect is thicker than water. And if you cannot engage with me in a respectful manner, then I have zero obligation to maintain this relationship based on familial ties alone. And. That is a very strong personal stance I've taken, and for Children, I know that there are a [00:45:00] lot of folks who have that are Gen X parents or millennial parents who are very intentional about disrupting generational trauma and the way that things have always been.
[00:45:14] And I think about it like this. If I was not related to this person, is there any way on earth I would ever want them to be an influence on my child? If it was a stranger, would I want them to influence my child? If it is a resounding fuck, no, then it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Now it will probably incur a lot of grief.
[00:45:39] You will probably need to mourn. And process that if you do have some sort of severance with a grandparent, but the idea that them being in your child's life at all costs simply because it's family can cause unbelievable damage. So [00:46:00] I think we also have to. Reexamine our perspectives of family and something that Brene Brown talks about a lot is that the family you're born into is your first family.
[00:46:11] It's your first experience with family. And then we get the opportunity to be deliberate and intentional about creating family. So in my thirties, I got very clear that if I was not having a reciprocal relationship with someone in my life, I was not interested in maintaining that relationship, whether they were family or not.
[00:46:32] And so that meant significant distance with a brother because there was no mutual respect. There was no, where he would call me or cared about what was going on in my life. It was completely one sided and I was going, you know what? I deserve more than that. And I think the same is true for our children.
[00:46:54] And then to your second question about overall, if there's anything I want to leave folks with. I [00:47:00] have been teaching this stuff for damn near two decades, right? Like I've had my company for 15 years. So a lot of the things that are rolling off my tongue are because I say them nonstop. And I really want to encourage you to know that this is a process and this is a skill communication boundaries.
[00:47:20] Speaking up is a skillset that absolutely can be learned. And where else would we have ever learned this? We're not taught in school. It's not modeled by our families. And we sure as fuck don't get a good example in the media. So how else would we have known this? So please be gentle with your process, but know that little Kindling of intuition that's happening in your heart.
[00:47:47] Those little pink flags that turn into red flags. You can trust that intuition and using that as a guide post of, okay, I'm going to learn this skillset. I'm going to [00:48:00] acknowledge. I'm going to amplify that intuition when something feels off to me. Am I committed to undoing generational trauma? Does it stop with me?
[00:48:09] Gen X notoriously was the first generation to go. Yeah, we're not going to do this anymore and still have a decent amount of struggle with it. And Gen Z and alpha are really. Encouraging me very, the emotional intelligence alone is really great to see. So be compassionate and generous with yourself as you're learning a completely new skill set.
[00:48:34] Darlene: Amazing. Amy, thank you so much for. Just talking about all this stuff. I hear you talk about this stuff often, but it was so fun to just be able to create my own questions and ask you and just hear your amazing approach and expertise in this area. So thank you. Oh,
[00:48:54] Amy Green Smith: of course.
[00:48:55] Darlene: I know where to find you, but please share [00:49:00] with everybody listening how they can find you, where they can connect with you best and learn a little bit more about your work, especially if they are like, okay, I suck at communication.
[00:49:10] I need Amy in my life.
[00:49:13] Amy Green Smith: Oh, I love that. So my corner of the internet is over at amygreensmith. com. And I like to say that all of those names are spelled the basic bitch way. No, no fancy spellings, amygreensmith. com and you'll see a ton of freebies over there. You can click on free sources and you'll see.
[00:49:35] Some free hypnosis tracks, a free workbook about speaking up for yourself. And then like any self respecting Gen Xer, I hang out the most on Instagram. You can find me under the handle. Hey, Amy green Smith. And that handle is pretty much across most of social media as well. But instead is where to find me, but I too have a podcast and [00:50:00] have.
[00:50:00] 500 episodes. So there if you want to dig deep into specifically saying no without guilt or dealing with your family during the holidays, there's definitely an episode for you over there. So I'd be most honored for you to come hang out.
[00:50:14] Darlene: Awesome, Amy. Thank you again and everybody listening. All those links will be Bye bye.
[00:50:19] In the episode information, Amy, thank you.
[00:50:27] Hey, thanks for listening to generational shifts. This podcast is a production of darling victoria digital media If you would like to suggest a topic or future guest or leave feedback head on over to the website at gen shifts. com That's g e n s h i f t s dot com You can also find episode information links resources and transcripts And if you'd like to connect with me, you can find me over on Instagram at dvpodcasts.[00:51:00]
[00:51:00] And finally, as the old internet saying goes, sharing is caring. If you like what you've heard in today's episode, please share it with a friend. That does it for another episode of the podcast. Thanks again for listening. Bye. Transcribed